Document zQdONKY4OabdaJJ5O0oKRKbRn

CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF WASHINGTON FOR PIERCE COUNTY 2 3 GEORGE E. GOODMAN and JEAN GOODMAN, husband and wife, 4 Plaintiffs, 5 vs. ) ) ) ) ) ) No. 04-2-10167-6 6) SABERHAGEN HOLDINGS, INC.; et al.) 7) Defendants. ) 8 9 DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION 10 OF 11 JOSEPH D. WENDLICK, CIH 12 13 1:09 p.m. 14 June 23, 2005 15 1601 Fifth Avenue, Suite 2300 16 Seattle, Washington 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Reported by: Allison O'Brien, CSR REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> Page 2 1 A P P E ARAN C E S 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS: CONARD METCALF (Via Telephone) Attorney at Law 4 Bergman & Frockt 705 Second Avenue, Suite 1601 5 Seattle, Washington 98104 6 7 FOR DEFENDANT BONDEX INTERNATIONAL, INC.: 8 JOHN R. OSBURN 9 Attorney at Law Bullivant Houser Bailey 10 888 Southwest Fifth Avenue Suite 300 11 Portland, Oregon 97204-2089 12 13 FOR DEFENDANT SABERHAGEN HOLDINGS, INC.: 14 (Via Telephone) EMILY STUDEBAKER 15 TIMOTHY KOST THORSON Attorneys at Law 16 Carney Badley Spellman 700 Fifth Avenue, Suite 5800 17 Seattle, Washington 98104-5017 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 INDEX 2 3 EXAMINATION: PAGE: 4 By Mr. Metcalf 4 66 5 By Mr. Osburn 62 6 70 7 8 9 EXHI B I T S 10 11 NO: DESCRIPTION: PAGE: 12 1 Johns Manville Repository Records 70 13 2 Chrysotile-Asbestos 70 Its Occurrence, Exploitation, Milling, and Uses 14 By Fritz Cirkel, M.E., Map No. 86 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 3 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 JOSEPH D. WENDLICK, CIH, 2 witness herein, having been duly sworn by the notary, 3 deposed and said as follows: 4 ***** 5 E XAM I NAT I O N 6 BY MR. METCALF: 7 Q. Mr. Wendlick, my name is Conard Metcalf. I'm one 8 of the lawyers representing Mr. and Mrs. Goodman in this 9 case. 10 Are you able to hear me okay? 11 A. I am. You're coming through loud and clear. 12 Q. Good, thank you. 13 For the record, would you please tell us your full 14 name? 15 A. It's Joseph David Wendlick, W-E-N-D-L-I-C-K. 16 Q. What is your date of birth, sir? 17 A. 20 April 1939. 18 Q. What is your residence address? 19 A. 851 South Marine Hills Way, Federal Way, 20 Washington 98003. 21 Q. And do you maintain a business address that is 22 separate and different from the 851 South Marine Hills Way 23 address? 24 A. No, sir. 25 Q. Do you have an office in your home at that Page 4 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 hand-delivered it to her. That was before I had a computer 2 and a few other pieces of equipment. And now I will usually 3 fax my handwritten reports or notes to her. And she will 4 e-mail that back to me. I will look it over. If it's 5 something that I can correct myself, I will. If it's 6 something that requires her expertise in word processing, 7 I'll make a copy of it and send it back by fax. And she 8 will then revise what I have written and send that back by 9 e-mail. 10 Q. Can you -- did I understand that you were 11 graduated from Oregon State University in 1962? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. With a Bachelor's of Science degree in chemistry? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And you graduated from Oregon State -- you 16 received a Master's of Science degree from Oregon State 17 University in 1965 in analytical chemistry? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. Did you write a master's thesis as part of your 20 Master of Science program? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. Do you remember the name of your master's thesis? 23 A. My goodness. 24 Q. That's all right. If you can't, that would be 25 fine. Page 6 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 silicate asbestos component? 2 A. Through the end of May 1978. 3 Q. When you were involved in developing this calcium 4 silicate asbestos product, were you -- did you have any job 5 duties or tasks with regard to controlling release of 6 asbestos into the workplace where it might be breathed? 7 A. Well, I'll start first with the first part of that 8 answer, which would be no. And that was from June of '66 up 9 through the -- probably the end of December 1971. That 10 would be no. But starting in January of 1972 through 1978 11 that was my job, was to control the exposure of airborne 12 asbestos fibers produced in that process to protect the 13 employees of that -- of that plant. 14 Q. Did the -- which plant was that, by the way, where 15 this product was being made? 16 A. Central Wisconsin. 17 Q. Do you know the area in which that product was 18 marketed after being made in central Wisconsin? 19 A. The world. 20 Q. That covers it. 21 Was there -- to your knowledge then, was 22 Weyerhaeuser -- somebody besides you responsible for 23 protecting workers from airborne asbestos between 1968 and 24 1971, 1966 to 1971, in this, the manufacture of this 25 fire-rated door? Page 9 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 name or a trade name that you recall? 2 A. Just Weyco fire doors, W-E-Y-C-O. 3 Q. Other than the Weyco fire doors that you worked on 4 at Weyerhaeuser, were you involved in the development of any 5 other asbestos-containing product while you were at 6 Weyerhaeuser? 7 A. Not an asbestos-containing product, but other 8 products not containing asbestos, yes. 9 Q. I think we got up to about 1971 in your chronology 10 at Weyerhaeuser. Could you continue after that? 11 A. Sure. 12 Q. Thank you. 13 A. In 1972 I was -- early, very early 1972 I was 14 doing work on air monitoring of exhaust stacks and cyclone 15 discharges throughout the company's western operations. And 16 that would include the monitoring of mercury from a 17 chlor-alkali plant. And I decided that I really wanted to 18 get into the field of industrial hygiene. And so I had the 19 opportunity to begin that job, which had no precedent in 20 Weyerhaeuser, in early 1972. And I was given the title of 21 industrial hygienist -- research industrial hygienist at 22 that time by the seniors of the company. 23 Q. Okay. And so in 1972 you became research 24 industrial hygienist at Weyerhaeuser. How long did you 25 continue in that role? Page 12 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Q. Sounds like a lot of travel. 2 A. I was at every single office, operations center, 3 distribution center, transportation depo, logging 4 operations, diapers, milk cartons, pulp and paper, wood 5 products in all of North America. I've been to every single 6 operation that Weyerhaeuser had at that time. That was 7 350 sites. 8 Q. Busy time? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. By the way, to your knowledge, did Weyerhaeuser 11 manufacture any products during the time that you were with 12 Weyerhaeuser other than this fire-rated door with the 13 calcium silicate asbestos component that contained asbestos? 14 A. No, sir, that was -15 Q. To your knowledge, the asbestos-containing fire 16 door was the only product that Weyerhaeuser manufactured 17 that contained asbestos? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Mr. Wendlick, have you published articles in 20 professional journals? 21 A. I was a coauthor on an article on formaldehyde 22 that was published in February of 1988 in the Journal of the 23 American Medical Association. And in 1987 I wrote 24 Chapter 36 in the book Occupational and Industrial 25 Dermatology. Page 14 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 indicated that I would be willing to work on that case. 2 Q. When Ms. Klein first called you, did she say, "We 3 have a case that's in litigation; would you be willing to 4 work on it?" or did she say, "We have a case involving 5 somebody who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma that is 6 from asbestos; would you be willing to work on it?" 7 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 8 A. The former. 9 Q. Okay. So basically when you said you would be 10 willing to work on the case, initially all you knew is that 11 it was a lawsuit and didn't know anything what it was about? 12 A. Not at that time, no. 13 Q. Okay. When -- what were you asked to do in 14 connection with working on this case? 15 A. To start with, just to review some fire -- excuse 16 me -- file materials that were germane to the case. 17 Q. When you say "file materials," were these 18 materials in your files or materials that you were -- that 19 were provided to you? 20 A. That I was provided. 21 Q. Do you remember which materials you were provided 22 with that you reviewed? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. What materials were those? 25 A. There was a notebook that had in it responses of Page 16 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Bondex International to the plaintiffs' master 2 interrogatories directed to all defendants. And then 3 further back is the videotape deposition of John "Jack" 4 Fleming. And then further back than that is a description 5 of the -- a number of different joint compound formulations 6 that some were written in handwriting and others were typed. 7 And then the -- the medical chronology on Mr. Goodman: 8 Dr. Andrea Rose Rainier Oncology report; Dr. Kari 9 Vitikainen -- I'm probably not saying that correctly, but 10 his report; the report of Dr. Thomas Mann; the report of 11 Dr. Eugene Lapin; the report by Dr. John Chaffee; and a few 12 pages that were written by Dr. Samuel Hammar. And that's 13 what I received initially. 14 Q. And the items you just went through are in a 15 notebook that you have there with you at the deposition? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 MR. METCALF: I would like to get copies, not 18 of everything in the notebook, but of the joint compound 19 formulations that are in that notebook, do that. 20 MR. OSBURN: Sure. 21 MR. METCALF: Maybe get them copied after the 22 deposition and attach them to the deposition. Would that be 23 okay, John? 24 MR. OSBURN: That would be fine. 25 MR. METCALF: Thank you very much. Page 17 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 MR. OSBURN: Exhibit 1? 2 MR. METCALF: I'm sorry. John, did you say 3 something? 4 MR. OSBURN: Yeah. Exhibit 1, I assume? 5 MR. METCALF: Oh, Exhibit 1, yeah, that would 6 be great. 7 Q. And then later, Mr. Wendlick, you were provided 8 with additional materials? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. With what additional materials were you then later 11 provided? 12 A. Okay. We'll take them one at a time here. I was 13 given copies of the discovery deposition transcript of 14 Mr. Goodman. This was dated 7 June. And then given the 15 deposition of pathologist Samuel Hammar. That was on the 16 10th of June. And I was given the transcript of a 17 videotaped perpetuation deposition of George Goodman, with 18 exhibits; and a medical evaluation of George Goodman by Carl 19 Andrew Brodkin, and that's dated the 16th of June. And I 20 received a transcript by e-mail for Jerry Lauderdale, which 21 is dated the 15th of June. And I had the opportunity to 22 review the deposition of Dr. Brodkin. And I think that that 23 covers what I've been provided. 24 Q. I take it that you've read through all the 25 materials with which you were provided? Page 18 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Have you read any other materials specifically in 3 connection with your work on this Goodman case other than 4 those that were provided to you and which you have just 5 enumerated? 6 A. Yes, I have. 7 Q. What additional materials have you reviewed other 8 than those we just talked about? 9 A. Oh, the Mohs' scale of hardness -- this was 10 established by German mineralogist Friedrich Mohs in 1812; 11 and an article by Art Rohl that was published in Science. 12 This is Rohl, Langer, Selikoff and Nicholson, and this was 13 in 1975 in the Journal of Science; and then an article 14 entitled "Drywall Construction and Asbestos Exposure" by 15 Fischbein, Rohl, Langer and Selikoff, and this was May of 16 1979; and then an article that was published in Great 17 Britain in The Annals of Occupational Hygiene in 2000 18 entitled "The Quantitative Risks of Mesothelioma and Lung 19 Cancer in Relation to Asbestos Exposure" by John Hodgson and 20 Andrew Darnton. 21 Q. Any other materials that you have reviewed 22 specifically in connection with your work on the Goodman 23 case? 24 A. Yes. This was published by the Canadian 25 Department of Mines. It's entitled "Chrysotile-Asbestos: Page 19 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Its Occurrence, Exploitation, Milling, and Uses." It's 2 published in Ottawa by the Government Printing Bureau in 3 1910. And that will do it. 4 Q. Okay. For what purpose did you look at the Mohs' 5 scale of hardness? 6 A. I looked at the Mohs' scale of hardness because 7 chrysotile asbestos is very soft with respect to the 8 amphibole types of asbestos. And it takes me back to 1966 9 and '67, when we had a lot of problems with chrysotile 10 asbestos being overrefined. It was easily broken down in 11 our refiner in that pilot plant and later the production 12 plant in Wisconsin that we talked about. 13 Q. Where did -- do you remember the source of the 14 asbestos used by Weyerhaeuser in making the fire door 15 product? 16 A. Yes, I do. 17 Q. What was the source? 18 A. For the chrysotile it was Carey Asbestos from 19 Canada. It was packaged in brown paper bags. And the 20 amosite was acquired from the U.S. government stockpile. It 21 came in in railcars, in unlined burlap bags. 22 Q. So the Weyco product contained both chrysotile and 23 amosite asbestos? 24 A. Yes, two to one, amosite chrysotile. 25 Q. And for what reason did you get the 1910 Canadian Page 20 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Department of Mines publication? 2 A. Well, I'm fascinated by all things asbestos, and 3 this is a part of my library. And within that text is a 4 very nice map that shows the various mining activities, 5 where they were located in the rather large, extensive 6 deposits in the province of Quebec. And it names the 7 individual mines and where they were located with respect to 8 some of the more easily recognized names like asbestos in 9 Thetford. 10 MR. METCALF: John, let's mark the 1910 11 Canadian Department of Mines publication as Exhibit 2 and 12 attach that to the deposition. 13 MR. OSBURN: We're not going to copy the 14 whole book. It's available. 15 MR. METCALF: Well, I just think it's -16 Mr. Wendlick, is it possible to copy the portions of the 17 book that are relevant to your work in this case? 18 MR. OSBURN: We can copy that map, yeah. 19 THE WITNESS: Yeah, we can copy the map. 20 MR. METCALF: How about the map and the title 21 page so we know where it came from? 22 MR. OSBURN: Okay. 23 THE WITNESS: Shouldn't be a problem. 24 MR. METCALF: Great, thank you. 25 Q. So now if -- Mr. Wendlick, have we gone over all Page 21 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> Page 22 1 of the items that you reviewed specifically in connection 2 with your work in the Goodman case? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Have you yourself talked to anybody, spoken with 5 anybody currently or formerly employed by Bondex? 6 A. No, I haven't. 7 Q. As we sit here today, Mr. Wendlick, is there any 8 additional work that you plan to do in connection with this 9 Goodman case? 10 A. Well, if there are other documents that are 11 germane to the case and those are provided to me, I will at 12 that time review those and use those in forming my opinion. 13 But as of this particular point in time, I've given you all 14 that I've relied on or reviewed. 15 Q. I take it you will not be giving any opinions in 16 this case concerning Mr. Goodman's diagnosis? 17 A. No, sir. 18 Q. And with regard to the medical causation of 19 Mr. Goodman's cancer, I take it you won't be giving any 20 opinions concerning that? 21 A. Not as a physician, no. 22 Q. Well, will you be giving opinions about the 23 medical causation of Mr. Goodman's cancer in some other 24 capacity that you can think of? 25 A. From my knowledge of the literature and my REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 extensive experience with asbestos since 1966, yes. 2 Q. You feel that you're qualified to give opinions 3 concerning medical causation of diseases? 4 A. On my review of what is -- what is in the 5 literature, yes. 6 Q. So your opinion concerning medical causation of 7 Mr. Goodman's cancer would be based on what you have read in 8 the publicly available literature? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Have you prepared any report or reports in this 11 case in connection with your -- the work that you've done 12 stating any of your opinions or conclusions? 13 A. No, I have not. 14 Q. Have you been asked to prepare a report stating 15 your opinions or conclusions? 16 A. No, I have not. 17 Q. Have you been asked not to prepare a report 18 concerning your opinions and conclusions in this case? 19 A. No, I have not. 20 Q. Have you seen the results of any air sampling done 21 in any place where Mr. Goodman worked in his career? 22 MR. OSBURN: Does that include Boeing? 23 MR. METCALF: Anywhere, yes. 24 A. At the moment, I can't recall. 25 Q. Do you recall that Mr. Goodman worked from Page 23 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 approximately 1969 to 1971 for a company called Style 2 Aluminum? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. What's your understanding about whether the work 5 that Mr. Goodman was doing for Style Aluminum was indoors or 6 outdoors or both? 7 A. I don't know how much a person needs to work 8 outside on these window casements, but I would gather from 9 the materials that I've been asked to review that the 10 majority of his work was inside. 11 Q. Do you have information concerning the size of any 12 of the spaces or rooms in which Mr. Goodman was working 13 while he was employed by Style Aluminum? 14 A. He just talks about older homes and estimates the 15 size of some of the windows that he may have had to replace, 16 but I don't recall a lot of specifics as to the size of the 17 homes. In his case it was more -- some homes only asked him 18 to do one or two windows, and others, they say, "We want all 19 of the windows replaced." 20 Q. Have you been to any location where Mr. Goodman 21 may have worked during the time he was employed by Style 22 Aluminum? 23 A. I don't know that he enumerated all of the various 24 houses that -- and the locations and addresses of those 25 homes. And it's possible that I've been to some of those, Page 24 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 but I really couldn't say because there wasn't enough 2 information. But I have done work in older homes in this 3 area of the country, but primarily for mold issues. 4 Q. Do you have -- are you able to give us a number 5 concerning about the number of times Mr. Goodman personally 6 mixed powdered tape-joint compound while employed by Style 7 Aluminum? 8 A. Personally mixed it? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. I was not able to discern that. Most of the time, 11 he was talking about one of the other employees doing that 12 and him being in the area or in the same house when that was 13 going on, but I don't remember where he specifically said, 14 "I mixed a batch of this" while he was at Style Aluminum. 15 Q. Can you give me an estimate as to the number of 16 times that Mr. Goodman was present when somebody else was 17 mixing powdered tape-joint compound while Mr. Goodman was 18 employed by Style Aluminum? 19 A. I can only rely on the figure of 100 to 150 20 different window jobs that he recalls, and that is part of 21 his deposition; but there was no specificity as to whether 22 he was at those jobs when mixing was actually going on, so I 23 can't really answer that. 24 Q. Can you give a number as to the -- as to the -25 give us a figure as to the number of times that Mr. Goodman Page 25 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 personally sanded dried tape-joint compound while he was 2 employed by Style Aluminum? 3 A. No, I cannot. 4 Q. Can you give us a figure as to the number of times 5 that Mr. Goodman was present when somebody else was sanding 6 dried tape-joint compound while Mr. Goodman was employed by 7 Style Aluminum? 8 A. No, I can't. 9 Q. Are you planning to offer any opinions concerning 10 Mr. Goodman's -- the -- to quantify Mr. Goodman's total 11 potential exposure to asbestos while he was employed at 12 Style Aluminum? 13 A. There are a few specifics that allow a clear-cut 14 estimate based on the evidence contained in those documents 15 as to what he was actually doing, where and when. And in 16 order to do a very detailed evaluation, all of those facts 17 would be -- would need to be in evidence. But I can speak 18 from my own experience. 19 Q. When you say "in those documents," which documents 20 are you referring to? 21 A. His depositions, both perpetuation and discovery. 22 Q. So do you believe that you have enough information 23 to make -- to quantify Mr. Goodman's potential exposures 24 while employed by Style Aluminum? 25 A. Only in the sense of what he says he was doing Page 26 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 when, and I would relate that to my own experience of doing 2 air monitoring when the same kind of work was going on in 3 hundreds and hundreds of homes. 4 Q. Well, what -- air monitoring when what kind of 5 work was going on? 6 A. Just exactly what he was doing with Style 7 Aluminum, and that is installing Sheetrock and then taping 8 and using joint compound over that, over that tape, and then 9 sanding and then maybe putting another application or two of 10 the joint compound and sanding again. So there would be 11 mixing, the hanging of the drywall, the cutting of the 12 drywall, the application of the tape and the -- and the 13 joint compound, the sanding of that, and then the cleanup 14 afterwards. 15 Q. And what, you know, caused you to be in locations 16 where drywall work was going on? 17 A. Weyerhaeuser had a home building division, and the 18 homes that they were building at the time that I was doing 19 these monitorings were in Klamath Falls, Oregon; Vacaville, 20 California; Richardson and Plano, Texas, north of Dallas; 21 Apopka in Florida; a location that I can't remember in North 22 Carolina; and a similar location that I can't remember in 23 Georgia. But I've been in over 1,200 homes as a part of my 24 responsibility to that division of the company. 25 Q. Did you do air sampling in all these 1,200 homes? Page 27 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. Not all 1,200, no. I did -- I tried to do that in 2 homes and with crews that would give me a handle on what 3 kinds of typical exposures that these people had to wood 4 dust; wood that had been pressure-treated with 5 pentachlorophenol that were used as plates in the 6 construction over the foundations; wood that had been 7 treated with chromated copper arsenate that was used in 8 decks and insulation that was being installed in those 9 homes; work that was done by composite panels as far as 10 formaldehyde exposure; and then wood dust that also 11 contained some of the resinous materials; and the exposure 12 to gypsum wallboard proper and exposure to the joint 13 compounds as they were mixed, as they were sanded, as they 14 were cleaned up; and then work during the roofing portion of 15 the operation; and any painting that was being done, to 16 monitor at that time some oil-based paint exposures. 17 Q. And what years would you have been going around to 18 these houses that were -- Weyerhaeuser was building? 19 A. 1972 through 1977. 20 Q. Were the people that -- the workers, the 21 construction workers building the houses, employees of 22 Weyerhaeuser? 23 A. Some were, and some were part of a contract 24 arrangement with local contractors. 25 Q. Do you have any records at all concerning any air Page 28 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 sampling you did at any of these homes that were being 2 constructed? 3 A. I don't have any records, no. Those -- those 4 would -- if they're still available, they would be with the 5 company somewhere. 6 Q. Can you tell me the number of times that you 7 specifically tested the air for asbestos in the air during 8 this period 1972 to 1977 at houses that were being 9 constructed? 10 A. Probably several hundred. 11 Q. And do you remember whether Bondex tape-joint 12 compound was being used in any of these constructions? 13 A. I do not. 14 Q. Do you remember the brand name of any of the 15 tape-joint compounds being used in any of these 16 constructions? 17 A. No, sir. I wasn't looking at brand names. I was 18 more interested in worrying about the employees' health. So 19 I was concerned about what kind of exposures did they have. 20 Q. Did you at any time during this period when you 21 were monitoring these houses notice whether or not the 22 people who were mixing and sanding the tape-joint compounds 23 were wearing respirators, masks? 24 A. I understand. Only on rare occasions, and that 25 was usually a person who had an allergy or something that Page 29 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 was aggravated by the presence of any kind of dust. So it 2 was just a general dust consideration. 3 Q. Did you at any time advise any workers to wear -4 who worked in these houses that you were monitoring -5 advise workers to wear dust masks or respirators? 6 A. Yes, I did. 7 Q. For what reasons do you advise that? 8 A. When I saw exposure levels, particularly on the 9 people that were involved in mixing, to wear the respirator 10 during the mixing process. But not only was the respirator 11 useful in protecting the individual, but a move away from 12 the dry material to a premixed material that came in pails 13 soon eliminated the need for respirators on those who mixed 14 the materials, because the mixing wasn't necessary anymore. 15 Q. How about with regard to -- did you ever advise 16 people who were sanding a dried tape-joint compound to wear 17 masks or respirators? 18 A. I left it as volitional because the exposures that 19 I was measuring during that period of time were compliant, 20 and I would say not only compliant, but under the allowable 21 OSHA limits. 22 Q. Well, was there any asbestos in those tape-joint 23 compounds that you were -- to your knowledge? 24 A. Our microscopist said there was. 25 Q. Who was your microscopist? Page 30 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. A guy by the name of Clarence Laufmann. I don't 2 think he's alive anymore. 3 Q. And so somebody -- were you personally operating 4 the air-sampling equipment in these houses, or was somebody 5 else doing that? 6 A. No, I didn't delegate that to anyone. I did it 7 all myself. 8 Q. So you'd collect some air samples, and then you'd 9 send them off to a lab somewhere? 10 A. I didn't send them. I hand-carried them back to 11 the lab, and I was there when they were being analyzed. 12 Q. Okay. Did you recall what was reported to you 13 concerning the asbestos that was found in these samples in 14 terms of the quantity in these houses that Weyerhaeuser was 15 building? 16 A. Are you talking now about bulk asbestos content or 17 are you talking about airborne levels while these activities 18 are ongoing? 19 Q. Well, let's talk about airborne levels while the 20 mixing and sanding is ongoing. Was there any air sampling 21 done during those activities? 22 A. Sure. 23 Q. How was the air sampling done? Can you describe 24 that to me? 25 A. Yes. It's done with a personal sampling pump, if Page 31 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 you're talking about personal samples. It's put on a 2 person's waistband or belt. And then connected to the pump 3 is a hollow plastic tube that runs up the back and over the 4 shoulder and connects with the sampling cassette that is 5 alligator-clip-mounted to the lapel. And the cap of the 6 cassette is removed during the sampling period, and the air 7 is drawn into the face of the filter that is within the 8 sampling cassette. 9 When we started this process, it was clear plastic 10 cassettes with a 37-millimeter-diameter filter. Later it 11 was realized that since some of the particles drawn into the 12 face of the cassette were winding up on the sidewalls and 13 not on the filter, the people who designed these cassettes 14 went with a graphite-containing plastic that was 15 25 millimeters in diameter that had a long path that would 16 minimize the buildup of electrostatic charge on the walls of 17 the collection cassette. And so more -- a greater 18 representative amount of the particles would wind up on the 19 face of the filter. And because the filter was smaller in 20 diameter, you'd get a larger concentration across the face 21 of the filter than on the 37-millimeter filter. Sampling 22 rate was pre-calibrated using either a primary or a 23 secondary flow meter at 2 liters a minute. 24 Q. So were personal samples used -- was personal 25 sampling used to sample air in these Weyerhaeuser houses Page 32 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 that were being built, or was it area sampling or what? 2 A. Both. 3 Q. Do you specifically recall if personal samples 4 were used to sample specifically for asbestos? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And let me back up a second. Did you -- is one of 7 the reasons you did sampling to specifically look to see if 8 there was asbestos exposure when these Weyerhaeuser houses 9 were being constructed? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. Why was that? 12 A. Because, as an industrial hygienist, one needs to 13 look at all aspects of a manufacturing operation or a 14 logging operation or in this case home building. And it was 15 my job not only to measure things, but to identify what 16 possible hazards the crews or the employees, the supervisory 17 staff, the maintenance people -- what kind of exposures did 18 they have. First job is to identify what might be there, 19 and the second aspect is to actually measure it. 20 Q. Before you started going into these Weyerhaeuser 21 houses and doing air sampling, did you know that tape-joint 22 compounds contained asbestos? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do you know what the percentage of asbestos was at 25 any of the tape-joint compounds that were being used on Page 33 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 these -- in these Weyerhaeuser houses that were being built? 2 A. Just a range. I don't know the exact amount for 3 any given joint compound. But for the range, it was from 4 2 percent to as high as 11 or 12 percent. 5 Q. Can you give me an estimate as to the number of 6 asbestos fibers in 1 gram of asbestos? 7 A. One gram? 8 Q. Correct. 9 MR. OSBURN: I'll object to form, vague as 10 to -11 A. Not really, because, you know, we need to talk 12 about the fiber size and diameter, we need to talk about how 13 long it is, we need to talk about what kind of asbestos 14 we're talking about. You know, you could have one fiber 15 bundle that's 1 gram. 16 Q. Did you know the amount of Bondex product that was 17 used on any single job that Mr. Goodman was on, worked on? 18 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 19 A. No, sir. He just talked about 25-pound 20 containers, but I was never able to discern how many of 21 those were used on any given job. 22 Q. Mr. Wendlick, what information do you feel that 23 you need as an industrial hygienist to be able to 24 scientifically quantify a person's exposure to asbestos? 25 A. I can take educated guesses on what a person might Page 34 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 have been exposed to in times past based on my own 2 experience and from their description of what kinds of 3 activities they were involved in. 4 This is precisely what I did when I personally 5 went around North America to determine how many people 6 within Weyerhaeuser's operation in the U.S. and Canada 7 should be enrolled in the asbestos medical surveillance 8 program. I had to first determine what kinds of exposures 9 were typical for various kinds of work, and then repeat that 10 in various operations to validate the first several samples 11 that were taken, and to do that again and again and again 12 until I was at a point where I was comfortable making an 13 estimate based on just what a person told me they were 14 doing. 15 Q. Well, I'm not really -- maybe I missed something, 16 but I was curious to know what information that you needed 17 to have in order to be able to scientifically quantify a 18 person's exposure to asbestos. 19 MR. OSBURN: I'll object to form as vague. 20 A. First I would -- I would need to know whether the 21 material that we're working with does in fact have asbestos 22 in it; and then if it does, what sorts of work activities 23 are these people involved in, how long are each of the 24 elements of those activities, what kinds of intermediate 25 activities that do not involve those materials are they Page 35 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> Page 36 1 involved in, how long they have been working with that 2 material that way, what the humidity is, how big the area 3 that they're working in might be, how many other activities 4 are going on at the time that may be adding to or 5 subtracting from those exposures. There's many, many 6 different things. But then you start with an air sample, 7 but that air sample must be kept under constant -- and I 8 would underscore that -- observation; otherwise, any number 9 that you get back is meaningless. 10 Q. By the way, with regard to these folks who were 11 doing the drywall taping and the mixing of the drywall 12 compound at the houses that Weyerhaeuser was building, was 13 there any long-term medical follow-up with those people to 14 see if any of them developed asbestos-related diseases? 15 A. When we started this program, it was 1972, and we 16 were monitoring a group of people who had exposure that was 17 sufficient to justify their ongoing enrollment on an annual 18 basis. So we had 2,500 people that were in the asbestos 19 medical surveillance program for all of Weyerhaeuser North 20 America. The initial group was even greater than that, but 21 these people that had it done initially but didn't have any 22 follow-up were people who no longer had any asbestos 23 exposure, but we wanted to establish a reference point in 24 time for each of these individuals. And that number was 25 probably another 3- to 400 above the 2,500. REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Q. With regard to the folks who were doing the mixing 2 and sanding of the tape-joint compound in these homes that 3 Weyerhaeuser was building, was there any long-term medical 4 follow-up with any of those people, to your knowledge? 5 A. Again, I would say that we had -- the people who 6 were exposed sufficiently to justify their annual medical 7 surveillance, we had them as part of our long-term 8 monitoring. But within the housing industry, people move in 9 and out of employment rather rapidly, and it's exceedingly 10 difficult to keep large populations in that industry in any 11 kind of a program, because they're so eager to move from one 12 place to another as opportunities arise. So as it relates 13 to those particular people, we probably had a small subgroup 14 of maybe thirty individuals who were monitored in an ongoing 15 basis. 16 Q. How many of those people do you know developed 17 asbestos-related diseases? 18 A. Well, we had a ten-year evaluation in 1982 of all 19 the people who had been on our asbestos medical surveillance 20 program monitoring list for ten years, and they had ten 21 consecutive years of chest x-rays, pulmonary function 22 testing. And in the chest x-rays, we did two. We did a 23 posteroanterior, or a PA, 14-by-17 roentgenogram, and then 24 we did a lateral or an oblique that would look behind the 25 heart to see if there was anything in the lung that would be Page 37 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 hidden by the image of the heart. So we had another x-ray 2 that wasn't really required by law, but our medical people 3 thought it was a good idea to do this as additional 4 protection to our population. And after that ten years, we 5 had two mesotheliomas in that population of 2,500. And the 6 two both had very extensive shipyard work before they came 7 to -- came to Weyerhaeuser. 8 Q. So, anyway, do you know if any of those people who 9 were looked at at this ten-year interval had been people who 10 were involved in mixing or sanding tape-joint compounds? 11 A. Out of the subset of thirty, there probably was, 12 but I can't tell you with any accuracy as I sit here today. 13 But I don't think that, if there had been any disease, that 14 we would not have picked it up. We saw lung cancers, but 15 those lung cancers were always connected with people who 16 were heavy smokers. We had one case of asbestosis and those 17 two cases of mesothelioma in a population of 2,500. And I 18 can't tell you anything about the disease of the subset. 19 Q. Have you been to any factory where Bondex 20 currently or formerly manufactured tape-joint compounds or 21 wall-patching compounds, anything like that? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. Have you ever seen any tests done on Bondex 24 tape-joint compound that was done for purposes of 25 determining how much asbestos would be released when the Page 38 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Bondex tape-joint compound was either mixed or sanded? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you have information concerning the source of 4 asbestos that was added by Bondex to products it 5 manufactured between 1968 and 1972? 6 A. No, sir, I don't. 7 Q. Do you know if Bondex has in its possession 8 samples of any asbestos-containing tape-joint compounds? 9 A. I have no knowledge of that. 10 Q. Do you know if Bondex continues to make tape-joint 11 compound that does not contain asbestos? 12 A. I really can't tell you that either. I don't 13 know. 14 Q. If a company had come to you, Mr. Wendlick, in 15 1968 and said, "We would like you to test our tape-joint 16 compound to see what kind of asbestos fiber release there is 17 when it's mixed or sanded," is that something that you could 18 have done or caused to be done? 19 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 20 A. In 1968 the method that was used then was a 21 collection by a midget impinger, and I have personally not 22 collected samples with midget impingers. They -- the phase 23 contrast microscopy method was just beginning to come in in 24 that period of '68 through probably late '69, and people 25 realized that it was a much better method. But at the time Page 39 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 that you're talking about, if someone had come to me, I 2 wouldn't have known much about what they were talking about, 3 because I was too involved in dust explosions. 4 Q. Have you seen any actual packaging that was used 5 by Bondex between 1969 and 1971 to contain Bondex 6 all-purpose tape-joint compound? 7 A. No. 8 Q. What is a respirable particle? 9 A. A respirable particle is one that can be inhaled 10 into the upper portion of the respiratory tree -- this would 11 be the nasopharynx, the nose, the mouth -- and then drawn 12 further down into the thoracic region of the lung, which 13 would be the trachea, the left and right bronchus, the 14 various bronchioles that branch off from those bronchi. And 15 the respirable is that which is capable of reaching either 16 at or beyond the respiratory bronchioles, which would be the 17 alveoli, the alveolar ducts and the alveolar sacs in the 18 lung structure. 19 Q. What is the -- do you have an opinion or 20 information about the maximum dimensions of an asbestos 21 fiber that can get into the human alveoli? 22 A. I really can't think of any at this point in time. 23 Q. Is a particle that is 0.25 microns in diameter 24 visible to the unaided human eye, to your knowledge? 25 A. Well, if we're talking about what you can see Page 40 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 floating around in the air that is unaided by any light 2 beams or other artificial means to accentuate the visual 3 recognition of such particles, my answer to that would be 4 no; that what you can see floating around in the air with -5 unaided by light beams or anything else has a limit of about 6 10 microns, and that's usually in size. And we're talking 7 about 0.25 microns, which would be much below that in 8 diameter. So, no, you wouldn't be able to see that floating 9 around in the air. 10 Q. When you talk about light beam, you're referring 11 to Tyndall lighting? 12 A. I'm referring to what John Tyndall found in the 13 middle nineteenth century, yes, light scattering. That was 14 one of his accomplishments in the field of physics. 15 Q. And the use of a Tyndall beam is a standard 16 industrial hygiene technique for at least trying to get some 17 initial visualizing of dust concentrations in the 18 atmosphere; is that right? 19 A. No, it's not. It has nothing to do with 20 industrial hygiene. 21 Q. What does it have to do with? 22 A. Well, John Tyndall developed that method to 23 determine the airborne bacteria in the atmosphere, because 24 he was trying to find out how various viruses and bacteria 25 are transmitted. And so he discovered this from watching Page 41 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 the way that the sunbeam illuminates these particles. But 2 it had nothing to do with industrial hygiene when he came up 3 with that. 4 Q. Well, I understand that. But today, in this day 5 and age, there are, for example, industrial hygiene 6 textbooks that refer to using a Tyndall beam to visualize 7 dust in an environment; is that right? 8 A. To visualize dust, just as you've said, yes. 9 Q. On page 3 of the -- what is provided to me as your 10 curriculum vitae, Mr. Wendlick, the -- it looks like the 11 second full paragraph says, "Over the past eleven years 12 worked as an industrial hygiene investigator in reviewing 13 155 case files involving asbestos-related lawsuits, 14 including 17 depositions and 12 court appearances as an 15 expert witness." Are you familiar with that statement? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. How do you know precisely that it's been 155 18 cases? 19 A. Because I keep track of it. The first one was in 20 August of 1993, and I've written every single one of them 21 down. I keep track of it on an annual basis -22 Q. Do you -23 A. -- and always update it. 24 Q. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. 25 A. That's all right. Page 42 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Q. Do you -- have you kept all your case files since 2 1993? 3 A. No, sir, I have not kept the case files. I keep 4 track of the name of the case that I've been asked to 5 review, and I've kept track of that and what dates I worked 6 on it. But if I kept all the materials that I've received, 7 I wouldn't be able to call my house anything other than a 8 storage area. 9 Q. Does the list you keep of the cases that you work 10 on in the asbestos-related lawsuits you've worked on since 11 1993 contain the information about who retained you? 12 A. I don't think so, no. It's just the listing of 13 the name of the plaintiff and the first defendant and then 14 usually et al. after that, but I don't think I've listed all 15 the firms that have retained me, no. 16 Q. In these 155 case files involving asbestos-related 17 lawsuits , have you written reports in any of those cases? 18 A. I've not written reports, but on a couple of them 19 I did a detailed evaluation of a person's lifetime asbestos 20 exposure dose and prepared a document to that effect. 21 Q. You haven't prepared any such -- apparently no 22 such document in connection with this Goodman case? 23 A. No, sir. 24 Q. Do you keep any of the depositions that you've 25 given? Page 43 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. A few. Some of them, I've never been given those, 2 and those have kind of gone into antiquity. I've been 3 unable to locate some of them that I've requested. 4 Q. Have you testified as an expert witness in any 5 asbestos cases at the request of Weyerhaeuser? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. About how many of the -8 A. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You asked me a 9 question about have I testified. The answer to that is no. 10 I have been involved in cases for Weyerhaeuser, yes. But, 11 I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. 12 Q. About how many of the 155 case files involving 13 asbestos-related lawsuits that you have been involved in 14 were cases where Weyerhaeuser asked you to become involved? 15 A. Three. 16 Q. I'm looking at page 6 of your -- of what's been 17 called your CV, Mr. Wendlick. It looks like the fifth full 18 paragraph from the top referring to "conducted a 19 comprehensive investigative evaluation of all 20 asbestos-containing substances present in a 288-unit 21 apartment complex in Phoenix, Arizona;" that you "planned, 22 supervised, and directed a selective abatement/removal 23 program designed to restore damaged asbestos-containing 24 ceiling and wall surfaces without wholesale 25 abatement/removal of affected asbestos-containing Page 44 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 substances." When you talk about ceiling and wall surfaces, 2 what asbestos-containing components were in those ceiling 3 and wall surfaces of this Phoenix, Arizona, apartment 4 complex? 5 A. It was just popcorn or cottage cheese ceilings. 6 Q. It also says wall surfaces. 7 A. Well, there were some -- some of the units 8 actually had a heavy joint compound application that was put 9 in there purposefully as a design feature in some of the 10 newer units so that there was -- it was a fairly thick 11 application to the surface of the walls. 12 Q. Do you have a copy of the asbestos control and 13 medical surveillance program that you worked up for the 14 Weyerhaeuser Company in 1972? 15 A. I don't believe so. It was done in collaboration 16 with the law department. So it's -- perhaps they have a 17 copy. 18 Q. Did you say, "in collaboration with the law 19 department"? 20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. Have you done any testing yourself to try to 22 determine what the ambient background level of asbestos 23 might be in northwest Washington? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What have you done in that regard? Page 45 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. Well, I've looked at airborne asbestos fiber 2 concentrations in Seattle, Tacoma, Bellevue, Puyallup, 3 Shelton, Port Angeles, Bellingham, and I think I did a few 4 tests over in Yakima. 5 Q. When you say you "looked at," what -- can you be a 6 little more specific when you say you looked at the 7 background levels in these different locations that you just 8 named? 9 A. Well, what you do is set up monitoring stations. 10 These are all area monitors. And usually they are mounted 11 on a light post, a telephone pole, the upper part of a stop 12 sign, or some other vertical structure that's adjacent to 13 the sidewalk and the street. And I try to mount those at 14 about breathing-zone height and let those run virtually all 15 day long. And I will usually alert the local police to what 16 I'm doing so that they can periodically check on those and 17 make sure that no one has done anything harmful to the -- to 18 the obtaining the data. 19 Q. When did you go about taking these samples in 20 these different locations? 21 A. Well, some of it started in 1984, and some was 22 conducted up through probably the mid-1990s. Maybe '97 23 would be the last one. I haven't done any of the ambient 24 monitoring since then. 25 Q. The earliest ambient monitoring you did would have Page 46 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 been 1984? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. Do you remember where that was done? 4 A. Seattle. 5 Q. Do you have anywhere a written result of any of 6 these -- of any of the sampling that you did beginning in 7 1984? 8 A. Well, that data is usually incorporated in a 9 report that I provide to my clients. And for most of the 10 clients that I had in that period of time, I've pretty much 11 given my files to them because they're -- they no longer 12 have need of my services. 13 Q. So you've not kept any information about what the 14 actual results were of your ambient monitoring? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Do you remember today what the results were of any 17 of the ambient monitoring you did in the past? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What do you remember about the results of any of 20 the ambient monitoring you did in the past? 21 A. Well, I remember that the numbers ranged from a 22 low of probably 0.002 fibers per cc -- that's averaged over 23 eight hours -- up to a high of just a little over 0.01, so 24 maybe 0.011, and it's -- and they were all in that range. 25 But that's not the highest exposure I measured in ambient Page 47 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 settings in the state of Washington. 2 Q. Well, just so I can get an understanding, the 3 range of results that you remember them today were between 4 0.002 at the low end and 0.011 at the high end? 5 A. Yes, sir. Those have all been in connection with 6 a job that I was doing, and people wanted to know what the 7 outdoor ambient environmental levels were to compare with 8 what I was finding inside the factories, the commercial 9 buildings, or the homes. 10 Q. Are you aware of any published results of ambient 11 sampling for asbestos? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What published results are you aware of regarding 14 ambient sampling for asbestos? 15 A. Those that were done by NIOSH. 16 Q. Did the EPA do some ambient sampling for asbestos, 17 as well, to your knowledge? 18 A. Yes, but by a different method. 19 Q. When you did the ambient sampling, how were the 20 filters analyzed? Was it by PCM or some other method? 21 A. PCM, because we needed to relate it to what was 22 going on inside buildings. 23 Q. So what -- when you were doing this sampling of 24 the houses that Weyerhaeuser was building, when people were 25 mixing and sanding tape-joint compound, what concentrations Page 48 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 were reported to you as having resulted from those 2 activities? 3 A. Well, for mixing, which was probably the only pure 4 exposure in any kind of work with Sheetrock, drywall, or 5 joint compound, I saw spikes for a minute in duration of up 6 to 40 fibers, and an average over 5- to 10-minute samples of 7 around 11 , 10 to 11. 8 Q. How about for sanding? 9 A. Well, for sanding, if we're looking at just 10 asbestos, levels down around 2. 11 Q. Two fibers per cc? 12 A. Yes, sir, just for asbestos. 13 Q. How about for silica? 14 A. I can't recall what kinds of results we had on the 15 analyses for silica, but we did analyze it for that. 16 Q. When you're retained as you were in this case, 17 Mr. Wendlick, what -- how much money do you charge for your 18 time? 19 A. 200 an hour. 20 Q. And when we're doing a deposition like we are here 21 today, how much do you charge? 22 A. That's what I'm referring to. 23 Q. Okay. How much do you charge for reviewing 24 materials such as those with which you were provided in this 25 case? Page 49 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. 150 an hour. 2 Q. And if we end up in trial and you have to testify, 3 how much will you be charging for that time? 4 A. 250 an hour. 5 Q. In terms of your work these days, Mr. Wendlick, 6 can you give me an estimate about what percentage of your 7 work is involved one way or another in lawsuit matters? 8 A. Well, I can speak to 2004. 9 Q. Oh, okay. 10 A. In 2004 lawsuit matters were about 30 percent of 11 what I do. 12 Q. And you say you can speak to 2004 because you have 13 records about that for 2004? 14 A. Well, that's the last complete year. This year is 15 not over yet, so I can't speak to that. But last year was 16 about 30 percent. 17 Q. Other than Mr. Goodman's work with Style 18 Aluminum -- leaving that aside for now -- in your review of 19 materials did you determine whether or not Mr. Goodman had 20 in fact been exposed to asbestos in any other activity he 21 had done in his career? 22 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What did you determine about that? What's your 25 opinion about whether Mr. Goodman was in fact exposed to Page 50 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 asbestos in any other job or activity he had in his career? 2 A. Well, for sure he had exposure to asbestos as a 3 result of his cutting of asbestos cement pipe at Parker 4 Lumber. And for sure, based on his description, at the Bay 5 City Construction sites and the work that they were doing, 6 he had exposure to airborne asbestos fibers. 7 Some of the others -- the exposure in the 8 barracks, if asbestos-containing pipe insulation is present, 9 there would almost have to be some sort of mechanical 10 disturbance of that pipe insulation for people within the 11 barracks to have exposure. And he couldn't really speak to 12 whether there had been a disturbance or not. He just -- he 13 recalls some pipes but no actual work done on those pipes. 14 And it's been my experience that you're not going to have 15 any exposure from just pipes being there. There usually has 16 to be something done to the pipe. Somebody has to bump it 17 or work on it in some way. 18 Some of the other exposures that he may have had 19 go to his time working early on. I think it was Dominion 20 Pest Control Service where he was entering into houses to 21 identify what sort of pests may be present, whether those 22 are carpenter ants or yellow jackets or European wood wasps 23 or some other pest that would be damaging to the wooden 24 structure of a home. The initial evaluation would take him 25 into a number of different areas, either in the attics of Page 51 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 those residences or in the crawl spaces under those 2 residences, where he could have had exposure to 3 asbestos-containing substances in the form of pipe 4 insulation on pipes or a vermiculite material added between 5 the rafters in an attic for insulation. 6 Q. Okay. Well, with regard to this pipe that you say 7 that Mr. Goodman cut, now, Mr. Goodman said there was no 8 labels on the pipe; is that correct? 9 MR. OSBURN: Object to form, misstates 10 evidence. 11 A. As I recall, he said there were some initials, but 12 he couldn't recall what those initials were. 13 Q. And he doesn't know who supplied the pipe; is that 14 correct? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And to your knowledge, that pipe has never been 17 analyzed; is that correct? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. And you don't know who manufactured that pipe; is 20 that correct? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. But nonetheless you're going to assume that that 23 pipe contains asbestos; is that correct? 24 A. Asbestos cement pipe, by the very name, contains 25 asbestos as one of the components. Page 52 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> Page 53 1 Q. Well, we don't know that it was asbestos cement 2 pipe, do we? 3 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 4 A. I believe we do. 5 Q. And you believe we do based on what information? 6 A. Shall I look for it? 7 Q. Please do. 8 A. I think the questions that he was asked were: 9 "What kind of asbestos cement pipe was it that you were 10 cutting?" And this is at Parker Lumber. 11 And he talked about using a tungsten blade. 12 "And how large was the asbestos cement piping, 13 what kind of diameter?" 14 And he said, "We're talking 8 or 10 inches, 15 something like that." And he talked about sawing pieces of 16 this, this pipe. 17 Q. Let me ask you this: Do you, I mean, have any 18 reason to believe that Mr. Goodman had some basis for even 19 thinking that the pipe had asbestos in it? 20 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 21 A. The basis is that that was one of the more 22 standard types of pipe that was used for water systems, 23 whether it was the drain systems, the sewer systems, the 24 high-pressure water lines that fed a particular building or 25 a home, and the transfer lines that went from the main line REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 to the branch lines. That's the kind of pipe they used. 2 They either used cast iron or they used asbestos cement 3 pipe. 4 Q. Well, and also just plain concrete pipe was used, 5 wasn't it? 6 A. Not usually for water lines. For drainpipes, yes. 7 Q. Do you know how many times Mr. Goodman cut cement 8 pipe? 9 A. He just said infrequently. He would usually step 10 in for others if they were on vacation and -- and cut that 11 for customers. Sometimes he might not do it for a while and 12 then suddenly he'd have a couple of jobs that he had to do a 13 number of cuts on the pipe. 14 Q. Was Mr. Goodman cutting the pipe indoors or 15 outdoors? 16 A. Outdoors. 17 Q. Was the wind blowing when he was cutting the pipe? 18 A. He didn't say that. 19 Q. Do you know if it was or wasn't? 20 A. I have no idea. 21 Q. Do you know if Mr. Goodman would have been exposed 22 to any respirable dust in cutting pipe, cement pipe, at 23 Parker Lumber? 24 A. Absolutely. 25 Q. If you know, how much -- let's just assume for a Page 54 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 minute that the pipe that Mr. Goodman cut at Parker Lumber 2 did have asbestos in it. What percentage of asbestos was in 3 the pipe? 4 A. Forty to 50 percent. 5 Q. Are you able to say that without knowing who made 6 the pipe? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Which manufacturer of asbestos cement pipe had 30 9 to 50 percent asbestos in it? 10 A. Johns Manville. 11 Q. But we don't know if what he was cutting was Johns 12 Manville pipe; is that correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. Were there any other manufacturers of 15 asbestos- containing -- asbestos in the pipe other than Johns 16 Manville? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Who were they? 19 A. CertainTeed, also known as Keasbey Mattison. 20 Q. Do you know what percentage of asbestos that the 21 CertainTeed Keasbey Mattison pipe had in it? 22 A. The ones that I'm familiar with are 30 to 23 40 percent. 24 Q. Do you know if anybody else made asbestos cement 25 pipe? Page 55 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. I don't. Page 56 2 Q. What activities at Bay City Construction do you 3 think would have exposed Mr. Goodman to asbestos? 4 A. When he was cutting the fittings and scoring the 5 fittings for the water lines that were located in troughs. 6 Q. How many times did Mr. Goodman cut or score a 7 water line? 8 MR. OSBURN: At? 9 MR. METCALF: Bay City Construction. 10 A. I'm not sure he gave an exact number. 11 Q. Did he give an approximate number? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you know the brand name or trade name of any 14 pipe that Mr. Goodman may have cut or scored at Bay City? 15 A. I do not. 16 Q. Do you have any bulk analysis of any of the pipes 17 that Mr. Goodman may have cut or scored at Bay City showing 18 what its composition was? 19 A. No, I do not. 20 Q. What -- can you point me to the information you 21 have that Mr. Goodman cut or scored water pipe at Bay City 22 Construction? 23 A. It was in the deposition of Dr. Brodkin. 24 Q. Anyplace else other than in the deposition of 25 Dr. Brodkin? REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. Just a minute. I'm looking. 2 Q. Let me ask you a different question. 3 Do you know what Mr. Goodman said in his -- any of 4 his depositions with regard to Bay City Construction? 5 A. He didn't recall doing much work there. 6 But what I was referring to was in Dr. Brodkin's 7 report on his deposition, page 4, Item 8, construction 8 laborer, Bay City, Tacoma, Washington, 1972; that 9 Mr. Goodman participated in excavation activities involving 10 installation of water and sewer piping. He cut and scored 11 asbestos cement pipe, for example, during joint fabrication. 12 Q. Do you know the source of Dr. Brodkin's 13 information that would cause him to make that statement? 14 A. I think it was the result of his oral examination 15 of Mr. Goodman. 16 Q. Now, with regard to the barracks that Mr. Goodman 17 was in, as I understand it, it's your opinion that you 18 simply can't say that he was exposed to asbestos in those 19 barracks . 20 A. That's correct. I think the question was asked, 21 "Do you remember any of the insulation on the steam pipes in 22 the barracks would be repaired or replaced?" 23 And he said, "I just don't recall, to be honest 24 with you ." That's from his deposition, Volume I. 25 Q. And with regard to Mr. Goodman's work in the pest Page 57 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 control business, you can't say whether he was or was not 2 exposed to asbestos in that activity either, can you? 3 A. I can't for absolute certainty, no. 4 Q. We don't even know for sure what any of the 5 insulation in the crawl spaces or attics is really made of, 6 do we? 7 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 8 A. I think he mentioned fiberglass batts and blown-in 9 fiberglass and sawdust and then a chopped-up material that 10 had a gray color. And that could very well be vermiculite. 11 Q. It could very well be something else, too, right? 12 A. Possible. 13 Q. And if it was vermiculite, we wouldn't even know 14 for sure where it came from, would we? 15 A. I think we would, because the plant that opened 16 the vermiculite from Libby, Montana, was located in Spokane, 17 Washington, and operated there for years and years, and most 18 of their output was used within the state of Washington for 19 attic insulation. 20 Q. Well, I understand that. But in any particular 21 house that Mr. Goodman was in, we don't know what the source 22 was for any of the attic insulation in those houses, right? 23 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 24 A. No, we don't know the exact source, no. 25 Q. When OSHA set the permissible exposure limit, is Page 58 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 it OSHA's position that that is a safe level of exposure? 2 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 3 A. I don't believe that that's the wording that they 4 used, that it was safe per se. I think they took the input 5 from the American Conference of Governmental Industrial 6 Hygienists and came up with a standard that they felt 7 represented a lower level of risk for people exposed than 8 what had existed prior to OSHA implementing the emergency 9 temporary standard. 10 Q. Well, at any time since 1971 forward, OSHA has 11 taken the position that when it sets a PEL, that the PEL is 12 safe? 13 A. I don't believe so. 14 MR. THORSON: Conard, this is Tim Thorson on 15 the telephone. I just want the record to reflect that Emily 16 Studebaker had to leave, and so we're doing a bit of a tag 17 team here. And so I'll be on this end of the telephone for 18 the duration of the deposition. 19 MR. METCALF: Welcome. 20 MR. THORSON: Thank you. 21 MR. METCALF: I might be just about done 22 here, Mr. Wendlick. I just want to sort through my notes 23 for a second, if I could. 24 Q. Mr. Wendlick, with regard to the materials with 25 which you were provided and specifically the medical reports Page 59 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 that you were provided, can you tell me whether there are 2 any statements in any of those medical reports with which 3 you disagree? 4 MR. OSBURN: Object to form, overbroad, 5 vague. 6 A. I don't believe so. 7 Q. With regard to -- now, let's see. You were 8 furnished with Mr. Lauderdale's deposition. Were there any 9 statements in Mr. Lauderdale's deposition with which you 10 disagree? 11 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 12 A. There was mention in there about an ambient 13 exposure of 0.0001, and it's pretty hard to get to a number 14 like that with phase contrast microscopy. And that's really 15 a number that you can only derive from transmission electron 16 microscopy, which is TEM. And there was no indication in 17 Mr. Lauderdale's deposition that it was done by TEM. That 18 number was just thrown out without describing the method by 19 which it was taken. 20 Q. Anything else in Mr. Lauderdale's deposition with 21 which you disagree? 22 MR. OSBURN: Object as vague, overbroad. 23 A. Permit me to check my notes, please. 24 Q. Sure. 25 A. On page 43, in responding to a question, If you Page 60 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 have an opinion concerning the dose level in terms of fibers 2 per cc that would have occurred during different stages of 3 drywall work, mixing, sanding, cleaning up, if you could go 4 through those, and he refers to historic studies by 5 Fischbein and others that have demonstrated levels of 6 exposures up to ranges like 60 fibers per cc during mixing 7 and sanding activities, and also during the cleanup phase, 8 very high levels, I think in the range of 35 cc, and even as 9 high as 10 fibers per cc in adjacent rooms. So all of these 10 are evidence of very high -- or very significant high fiber 11 levels during these activities -- I disagree with all of 12 that. 13 Q. You disagree with that that's what Rohl, et al., 14 reported? 15 A. I don't disagree with what they reported. I 16 disagree with the validity of what they reported. 17 Q. Okay. Anything else in Mr. Lauderdale's 18 deposition with which you disagree? 19 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. Do you want to 20 have him sit down and review the whole thing again? 21 Q. Well, just anything that -- I mean, well, you've 22 got some notes, right, Mr. Wendlick? 23 A. I'm just looking at Mr. Lauderdale's deposition 24 now. I think for the moment that's it. 25 Q. Okay. You just said a minute ago that you were Page 61 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 checking some notes. What notes were you checking? 2 A. Well, I've got -- the notes are what I've got in 3 my head as I look at his deposition, not anything on paper. 4 Sorry. 5 Q. Okay. Just thought I should ask. 6 As you went through the materials with which you 7 were furnished, Mr. Wendlick, did you in fact make any 8 notes? 9 A. The only notes I made were on those little stickum 10 notes that I had tagged on different pages. 11 MR. METCALF: I think that's all I have for 12 now. Anybody else have any questions? 13 MR. THORSON: None here. 14 MR. OSBURN: Oh, I have a few now. 15 MR. METCALF: Okay. Well, Allison -16 MR. OSBURN: Conard? 17 MR. METCALF: Yeah. 18 MR. OSBURN: You must have misheard me. I 19 said I have a few now. 20 MR. METCALF: Oh, I apologize. I'm sorry. 21 MR. OSBURN: That's all right. 22 E X A M I N A T I O N 23 BY MR. OSBURN: 24 Q. Mr. Wendlick, when you said that you weren't 25 certain who manufactured the asbestos cement pipe to which Page 62 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Mr. Goodman was exposed, how many manufacturers of asbestos 2 cement pipe to your knowledge stamp their pipe with the 3 company initials? 4 A. Only two that are in my knowledge. 5 Q. And which are those? 6 A. JM and KM. 7 Q. And what does JM stand for? 8 A. Johns Manville. 9 Q. And what does KM stand for? 10 A. Keasbey Mattison. 11 Q. When Mr. Metcalf asked you about whether you 12 disagreed with portions of Mr. Lauderdale's examination, 13 were you answering off the top of your head or from any 14 notes? 15 A. Pretty much off the top of my head with reference 16 to his deposition that I had before me. 17 Q. If you reviewed his deposition in detail, could 18 there be other areas with which you disagree with 19 Mr. Lauderdale? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Whether or not you disagree with specific items or 22 statements in Mr. Lauderdale's deposition, do you agree with 23 everything else in his deposition? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Mr. Lauderdale states in his deposition that he Page 63 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 believes that the only exposure that is really well 2 documented and identified would be the Bondex exposure. Do 3 you agree that the Bondex exposure Mr. Goodman has alleged 4 and has testified to is well documented -- really well 5 documented and identified? 6 A. No, I do not. 7 Q. Mr. Lauderdale is asked if there's a possibility 8 Mr. Goodman was exposed to crocidolite asbestos, and he 9 states that he doesn't -- to paraphrase -- see evidence that 10 would allow him to have an opinion that Mr. Goodman did have 11 exposure to crocidolite. Do you agree with that statement? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Do you have any information on any content of any 14 Bondex product that would contain tremolite? 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. Do you know whether or not the Bondex all-purpose 17 joint compound that Mr. Goodman alleges he was exposed to 18 contains tremolite? 19 A. I don't know that. 20 Q. As Mr. Lauderdale offers his personal opinion on 21 what the best evidence of something is, do you necessarily 22 disagree that he has that opinion? If you understand that 23 question? For example, Mr. Lauderdale testifies or mentions 24 a book entitled Mesothelioma by Robinson and Chahinian, and 25 he states that they indicate that the relative risk is 26 Page 64 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 times higher for some amphiboles than chrysotile, and he 2 believes that's the best evidence he's got at that time. 3 Now, you wouldn't disagree that that is perhaps his belief, 4 would you? 5 A. No, not that it's his belief. 6 Q. Would you disagree that that is the best evidence 7 of the relative risk between amphiboles and chrysotile? 8 A. I would not agree with that. 9 Q. Mr. Lauderdale states that basically it was known 10 by 1969 certainly that asbestos was a very significant 11 health hazard, and that certainly lung cancer and 12 mesothelioma were all well known at that time and well known 13 in the literature. Would you agree with that? 14 A. Not to my knowledge. 15 Q. Do you know whether or not Bondex was a member of 16 any particular trade associations? 17 A. I don't believe they were. 18 Q. So if Mr. Lauderdale testified that he believed 19 Bondex was a member of a number of trade organizations or 20 other health organizations, you would disagree with that? 21 A. Yes, I would. 22 Q. Do you believe that -- well, Mr. Lauderdale states 23 that he believes that it's been well known since 1929 that 24 manufacturers have been on notice of the hazards of asbestos 25 products. Do you agree with that? Page 65 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. No, I do not. 2 Q. So being given specific examples of 3 Mr. Lauderdale's testimony rather than an open-ended 4 question , has that allowed you to agree or disagree with 5 certain statements by Mr. Lauderdale? 6 A. It's allowed me to disagree with these certain 7 statements. 8 MR. OSBURN: I don't have anything further. 9 E XAM I NAT I O N 10 BY MR. METCALF: 11 Q. Mr. Wendlick, with regard to the potential 12 asbestos -containing products involved in this case, have you 13 seen a formula or recipe for any one of those products other 14 than the Bondex products? 15 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. 16 A. For those that have been identified in this case 17 generally or specifically? 18 Q. Generally. 19 A. The answer to that is yes. 20 Q. Which products generally identified in this case 21 do you - - I mean, do you have them with you today, the 22 recipes or ingredients -23 A. No, sir. 24 Q. -- of those products? 25 A. No, sir, I do not. But the recipe or the formulas Page 66 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 I do have are those that were used by Johns Manville from 2 the late '40s to the late '60s and early '70s on Transite or 3 asbestos cement pipe that was produced by their various 4 operations around the country, and this applied to all 5 pressure pipes, sewer pipe, drainpipe, vent pipe. 6 Everything they manufactured had crocidolite in it. And all 7 of these materials that I am relying on were obtained from 8 the Johns Manville records repository in Colorado. 9 Q. Well, do you have those with you today? 10 A. No, sir, I do not. 11 Q. And do you have formulas for CertainTeed cement 12 pipe? 13 A. No, sir. 14 Q. Formulas for Keasbey Mattison cement pipe? 15 A. Keasbey Mattison and CertainTeed are identical. 16 Q. So you don't have formulas for either CertainTeed 17 or Keasbey Mattison cement pipe? 18 A. No, sir. 19 Q. Is it your understanding that Bondex was not a 20 member of any trade association or organization? 21 A. Part of the documents that were given to me are 22 responses by Bondex International to plaintiffs' master 23 interrogatories directed to all defendants. On page 39 of 24 that, under No. 38: "Were you ever a member of the Asbestos 25 Textile Institute, the National Insulation Contractors Page 67 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 Association, the National Insulation Manufacturers 2 Association, the Magnesia Manufacturers Association, the 3 Quebec Asbestos Mining Association and/or any other trade 4 association? Please identify." 5 Response: "No. Bondex has participated in 6 certain activities of the National Decorating Products 7 Association, 1050 North Lindbergh Boulevard, St. Louis, 8 Missouri. However, Bondex does not believe it was ever a 9 member of that organization." 10 Q. So based on the information you had, Bondex was 11 never even a member of the National Safety Council? 12 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir. 13 Q. Was Weyerhaeuser a member of the National Safety 14 Council? 15 A. At one time. 16 Q. What research have you done, Mr. Wendlick, to 17 determine when manufacturers of asbestos products knew that 18 there was danger from asbestos disease to those working 19 with, around, and exposed to asbestos? 20 A. I'd have to refer to my own experience with 21 Weyerhaeuser, and I didn't know until late 1971, in December 22 of that year, that asbestos was a problem. And I was the 23 first industrial hygienist in the forest products industry. 24 And if I didn't know, I don't think anyone else in our 25 industry knew. I can't speak for other industries. But at Page 68 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 least in forest products in North America this was new 2 knowledge as of December of '71, January of 1972. 3 Q. So, for example, you have no idea what other 4 manufacturers of tape-joint compounds knew or were doing 5 about asbestos disease hazards before 1970? 6 A. No, sir. And I would have to go back to when we 7 were manufacturing an asbestos-containing calcium silicate 8 hydrate that we were using for core material in fire doors. 9 We had contact with other manufacturers around the country, 10 and there was no knowledge among those other manufacturers 11 that were outside the forest products industry about the 12 hazards of asbestos used in fire doors. And that was from 13 '66 on. There was no knowledge. 14 Q. No knowledge that you're aware of? 15 A. None that I'm aware of, and that includes me. 16 Q. So your understanding about what was known or not 17 known about asbestos disease hazards is really based on your 18 own personal knowledge rather than on any research you've 19 done? 20 A. That's correct. I had massive exposures myself, 21 and I didn't know that I needed to wear a mask. 22 Q. Do you wish somebody would have told you about the 23 potential dangers when you were having those massive 24 exposures? 25 MR. OSBURN: Object to form. Page 69 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 A. It would have been nice. 2 Q. If you had been told, you would have taken some 3 action to protect yourself from the exposures, wouldn't you? 4 A. Sure. 5 MR. METCALF: Well, I think that's all I 've 6 got. Anybody else have any now? 7 MR. OSBURN: I just have one. 8 E XAM I NAT I O N 9 BY MR. METCALF: 10 Q. Mr. Wendlick, who would you have expected to have 11 told you about the hazards of asbestos? Your employer, if 12 they knew? 13 MR. METCALF: Object to the form. 14 A. I learned about asbestos, the hazards from OSHA 15 and NIOSH. So I didn't -- I didn't receive any information 16 to that effect from my employer. 17 MR. OSBURN: I have no further questions . 18 MR. THORSON: Nothing here. 19 MR. METCALF: Good enough. 20 (Exhibit Nos. 1 and 2 were marked.) 21 (Hearing concluded at 3:26 p.m.) 22 (Signature reserved.) 23 24 25 Page 70 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> 1 CO RRE C T IO NS 2 Please make all corrections to your testimony on this sheet, showing page and line number and 3 the nature of the change. If there are no changes, write "none." 4 Sign the correction sheet and affidavit and return within 30 days to: 5 Allison O'Brien 6 Certified Court Reporter 1100-106th Ave. N.E., No. 206 7 Bellevue, WA 98004 8 9 PAGE: LINE: CORRECTION AND REASON: Page 71 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Joseph D. Wendlick, CIH 25 REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> Page 72 1 A F F I DAV I T 2 3 STATE OF WASHINGTON ) ) ss. 4 COUNTY OF KING ) 5 6 I have read my within deposition, and the same is 7 true and accurate, save and except for changes and/or 8 corrections, if any, as indicated by me on the 9 "CORRECTIONS" flyleaf page hereof. 10 11 12 __________________________________________________ 13 Joseph D. Wendlick, CIH 14 15 16 17 SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO before me this 18 day of , . 19 20 21 22 23 NOTARY PUBLIC in and for the State 24 of Washington, residing at . 25 My commission expires . REPORTER> CASENAME> WITNESS>, DATE> Page 73 1 CERT I F I CATE 2 STATE OF WASHINGTON ) 3 ) ss. COUNTY OF KING ) 4 5 I, Allison C. O'Brien, a Notary Public in and for 6 the State of Washington, do hereby certify: 7 That the foregoing deposition was taken before me 8 at the time and place therein set forth; that the 9 witness was by me first duly sworn to testify the 10 truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth; that 11 the testimony of the witness and all objections made at 12 the time of the examination were recorded 13 stenographically by me and thereafter transcribed under 14 my direction; and that the foregoing transcript is a 15 true record of the testimony given by the witness and 16 of all objections made at the time of the examination, 17 to the best of my ability. 18 I further certify that I am in no way related to 19 any party to this matter nor to any counsel, nor do I 20 have any interest in the matter. 21 Signed and sealed this __ day of , _____________________. 22 23 Notary Public in and for the State of Washington, 24 residing at King County. My commission expires July 18, 2008. 25 Reporting License #OBRIEAC424LQ REPORTER>